Tuesday, August 07, 2007
know your His
It is not good to call into questions a brothers salvation. I got a pal that calls me to always question if I am saved and I think it is not ok. First of all salvation is a gift of God and when one calls on the name of Jesus and places his trust in Jesus alone that ends it. Jesus wants you to know that if he is in you your his and not to worry about it. If you question that in one more sateen has working on self and not on others. It makes me mad and the next one to go and question I am going to preach this to we are saved because of grace of God and not of work in any shape or form. No one can lose their salvation after they are saved. But so many do not get this and they say you can. I could go all over the bible but I am going to give one passage. If your not saved you get no hope of heaven and hell is your home forever. Saved is you placed your eternal trust in Jesus and his work on the cross for your forgiveness of sins. It is belief and repenting of sin that makes one saved. If you are not saved and trust Jesus this is not for you. If you are God said this
Romans 8 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.1
Rom 10 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”2
If you have called on Jesus your saved so stop thinking your not saved. You have it all when you got Jesus.
Eph 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
If your in Jesus you have all of Jesus and not some of Jesus. Everything is yours in Jesus. If your his stop doubting or filling a churches requirements like conformation or mass because your all saved. I dis the pope and his system because he is not going to tell you the bible said your in Jesus and saved but he wants you to be Catholic and that is not bible. No man is not going to give you hope. Pope is a man and has no hope in him and no hope is in mary either. Jesus gave his blood for one reason to buy you into his kingdom and he did all the work ever needed. If you are his claim it and live for him and if not come and get into the family.
Romans 8 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.1
Rom 10 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”2
If you have called on Jesus your saved so stop thinking your not saved. You have it all when you got Jesus.
Eph 1 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
If your in Jesus you have all of Jesus and not some of Jesus. Everything is yours in Jesus. If your his stop doubting or filling a churches requirements like conformation or mass because your all saved. I dis the pope and his system because he is not going to tell you the bible said your in Jesus and saved but he wants you to be Catholic and that is not bible. No man is not going to give you hope. Pope is a man and has no hope in him and no hope is in mary either. Jesus gave his blood for one reason to buy you into his kingdom and he did all the work ever needed. If you are his claim it and live for him and if not come and get into the family.
Labels: calvinism. bible . salvation, saved forever
Saturday, March 31, 2007
No Jesus died for all?
What to go to. I go one way and I am going to sound like I am not going anywhere where pepole think I need to go. I think I am going to go this way and if we go to far into the love issue then I deal with it. I wanted to put some things on here that showed what we calvinist do not go for and I could not find the thing on the net. I am not going to drag on and on on this topic I want to go into John and other things and I said lent was the time for calvin and I am keeping to that. I need to hit three points and I am not even hit them hard but I might come back to them at another time. I am going to touch limited atonement in maybe 2 nights and I am going just at the end give links and a survey. I am going to really put a report that is not my work and perhaps make points. I do not know where we are going tonight and we might go here and think Limited Atonement has nothing to it and we might think we got to dive into it and we just might thing it is nothing.
SO here is the article and Lets just see where we like this and do not
The doctrine of Limited Atonement (or Particular Redemption) is probably the most controversial of the doctrines of grace and most difficult to accept by many believers. Limited Atonement states that Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only, and actually secured salvation for them. His death was the substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation; including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
Scriptural Support:Exodus 4:21, 14:4, 8, 17; Deuteronomy 2:30, 9:4-7, 29:4; Joshua 11:19; 1 Samuel 2:25, 3:14; 2 Samuel 17:14; Psalm 105:25; Proverbs 15:8, 26, 28:9; Isaiah 53:11; Jeremiah 24:7; Matthew 1:21, 11:25-27, 13:10-15, 44-46, 15:13, 20:28, 22:14, 24:22; Luke 8:15, 13:23, 19:42; John 5:21, 6:37, 44, 65, 8:42-47, 10:11, 14, 26-28, 11:49-53, 12:37-41, 13:1, 18, 15:16, 17:2, 6, 9, 18:9, 37; Acts 2:39, 13:48, 18:27, 19:9; Romans 9:10-26, 11:5-10; 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 2:14; 2 Corinthians 2:14-16, 4:3; Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 2:1-10; Colossians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-14; 2 Timothy 2:20, 25; Titus 2:14; Hebrews 1:3, 14, 2:9, 16 (cp. Galatians 3:29, 4:28-31), 9:28; 1 Peter 2:8; 2 Peter 2:7; 1 John 4:6; Jude 1, 14; Revelation 13:8, 17:8, 15-18, 21:27.
In the bible list here the EX talked about God harding Pharohah
Look at Matt 11 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.1
I want to just hit this passage because there is a hidden from thing. Jesus does hide his truth drom people and this is a argument for this topic.
Matt 20 28 27 And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”2
For all no it said here for many.
Matt 22 14 many called few chosen
Luke 8 14 good soil consept
Luke 13 23 Are there only a few
luke 19 42 things hidden from your eyes
John 8 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”3
Key passage I think in John. First Folk were not able to get the truth because Jesus said the devil is working do they do not. If all can get saved why hide this truth? Some do not hear because he who hears did not hear because the people were not from God.
The first thing to consider is the purpose of Christ's death. Hebrews 10:9 says that Jesus came to do the will of the Father. So it follows that the purpose of His death was to accomplish the Father's will. But what was the Father's will in the death of Christ? It was shown from Scripture in the previous article on the doctrine of unconditional election that it was the purpose of the Father to choose some for salvation, not make salvation a potential for all based on the exercise of free will, which is totally corrupted and depraved by sin. If, then, Christ came to fulfill the purpose of the Father; and it was not the purpose of the Father to elect some to salvation rather than all; then it logically follows that it was not the purpose of Christ to die for all men.
In the covenant of grace, the Father chose a people, Christ promised to die for them, and the Spirit pledged Himself to apply salvation to their hearts. In Isaiah 53:10-12 it says: "But the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; by His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured out Himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors."
Christ foresaw the suffering and agony that He would have to endure, and yet, He was content with it, for He realized that by His death, everyone for whom He died would be redeemed from sin. Now if Christ died for all men, and some for whom He died ended up going to hell anyway, then Christ could not have foreseen the suffering and agony of His soul and been satisfied. He would have been disappointed because His efforts would not have been sufficient to save everyone for whom He died. Therefore, the atonement Christ made for the sins of His people was limited in purpose; not in its value, but in its purpose, for it was designed for the elect of God.
If Jesus died for a sinner that did not repent his death is wasted because the sinner is not going to take. In the choice God makes all the blood is used and none is wasted. It is a waste of the blood of Jesus if he died and no one claims it.
The second point to consider is that the purpose of the death of Christ was to save His people from their sins. That is clearly stated for us in Matthew 1:21: "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." This passage did not say that He would save the whole world, nor did it say that He should try to save His people; but that He would save His people from their sins. If that was the prophecy given concerning the birth of Jesus Christ and the purpose for which He came, we must surely know that which was determined by the Father was fulfilled by His faithful Son. Luke 19:10 supports this point: "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." If that then was His purpose; He accomplished that very thing.
Thirdly, the purpose of Jesus' death was to bring the elect to glory. Romans 8:28-30 says: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." In John 17 is the prayer of intercession made by the Lord Jesus. In verse 2 He prayed, "Even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life." Note that eternal life was not for all men, but those that were given to Him by the Father. In verse 9 He continues: "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;". It would not be reasonable that Christ would limit His prayers to those given to Him by the Father, and at the same time die for all men, knowing very well that many would not be saved. He prayed for those for whom He died, and He died for those given Him by the Father. His purpose then was not to save the entire human race, for if that had been His purpose He would have accomplished it. Christ is the Almighty and accomplishes everything He intends to do. It was His purpose to save only the elect of God, and His purpose was fulfilled.
Christ died for His sheep, and because of this none can be lost. In John 10:10-11 He said, "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." And in verse 28 He continues: "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." (Notice that He does not offer them eternal life.) Jesus died for the sheep, and He gives eternal life to everyone for whom He died. Christ did not come to attempt to save men; He came to redeem His people. He purged their sins and then sat down on the right hand of His Father. (Hebrews 10:12)
As was stated at the beginning, there are many who find this doctrine hard to accept and so object to it. Nonetheless it is truth that is taught in the Word of God. There are many objections that are raised, and this article will only deal with some of the main ones. One of the first things objectors usually refer to is the use of the word "world" in the Scriptures, and the first passage that is always read is John 3:16: " For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16 simply states that the design of God's love, that all who believe in Christ should be saved by Him. These believers in their unregenerate state are scattered abroad among the Gentiles as well as among the Jews, and so are fitly described by the word "world." Of course, there are those who reject this explanation. They may look to Acts 11:18 for support: "When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, 'Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." But does this mean that every Gentile has been granted repentance, and that every Gentile will be saved? Of course not. What this passage shows is that repentance has been granted to the Gentiles; it simply means that all those of God's elect among the Gentiles shall be given repentance unto salvation. The Jews are not the only ones to be granted this gift. Jews as well as Gentiles have been given repentance, and so it is the same in John 3:16. It does not have reference to every person in the world, but it has reference to men of all nations.
A passage that illustrates this point well is found in Revelation 5:9: "And they sang a new song, saying, 'Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.'" This helps us to understand, in this context, what is meant by the use of the word "world". It means people of every tribe, tongue, and people; that Christ's death was not restricted to the Jews, but that it was for members of the entire human race scattered throughout the earth.
There are several other examples. In John 7:7 the word "world" is used to distinguish unbelievers from believers. In John 12:9 the word "world" is used of a special people. Romans 11:15 uses it to distinguish Gentiles from Jews, and thus so in passages such as John 3:16 and 1:27, 1 John 2:1 and 2 -- it is used of all the elect of God. Hebrews 2:9 says, "But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." At this point someone may say, "This is Scriptural proof that Christ died for all men." But the context will explain what it means. "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, 'I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.'" (Hebrews 2:10-12) When read in context it can be seen that the passage has reference to sons; it has reference to the church; it has reference to the brethren; it has reference to those who are the children of God. So this passage could be understood to say that "Christ has experienced death for every son," for every one that was given to Him by the Father.
What about 2 Peter 2:1? "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves." It must be made clear that these false teachers are unsaved. They are compared to dogs and pigs, not to sheep (2 Peter 2:22). Such people are described in Jude 19 "devoid of the Spirit." If a person does not have the Spirit of God within, he is not a child of God (Romans 8:9). He may appear to be saved and even become a member or an officer in the church, but eventually, in one way or another, he will deny the Lord.
Notwithstanding, this passage is not discussing the atonement of Christ. Peter's first epistle was written to Jews, so most likely was his second one. (1 Peter 1:1; Galatians 2:7) In what sense were these false teachers "bought" by the Lord? To a Jew who was not a Christian "the Lord" would most naturally refer to God the Father, not Jesus. And the Jews were "bought" by God in the Exodus.
One more passage of Scripture to consider is Romans 8:34. It is a clear example of Limited Atonement, or Particular Redemption. It says, "Who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." How could any for whom Christ died be condemned? The law has been fulfilled, justice has been satisfied, sin has been paid for; and so, the Apostle Paul argues that condemnation is impossible. And since condemnation is excluded by His death, then none for whom He died can be condemned. All for whom Christ died, died in Him; thus the law could not again demand their death.
The renowned 19th century British preacher and evangelist Charles H. Spurgeon had these words to say about limited atonement (from his sermon, "The Mission of the Son of Man"):
"Now, some people love the doctrine of 'universal atonement' because they say it is so beautiful. It is a lovely idea that 'Christ should have died for all men'; it commends itself, they say, to the instincts of humanity; there is something in it full of joy and beauty.
"I admit there is; but beauty may be often associated with falsehood.
"There is much which I might well admire in the theory of 'universal redemption' but let me just tell you what this supposition necessarily involves. If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were damned before He died; because if this doctrine (that He died for all men) is true, He died for some that were in hell before He came into this world, for doubtless there were myriads there that had been cast away.
"Once again, if it were Christ's intention to save all men, how deplorably has He been disappointed! For we have His own evidence that there is a lake that burns with fire and brimstone, and into that pit must be cast some of the very people, who according to that theory, were bought with His blood!
"To think that my Savior died for men in hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to imagine. That He was the substitute for the sons of men, and that God having first punished the substitute, punished these same men again, seems to me to conflict with any idea of justice.
"That Christ should offer an atonement and satisfaction for the sins of all men, and that afterwards, some of those very men should be punished for the same sins which Christ had already atoned for, seems to me, to be the most marvelous monstrosity that ever could have been imputed to Saturn, to Janus, aye, to the god of the Thugs, or the most diabolical heathen demons!
"God forbid that we should ever think thus of Jehovah, the just and wise."
In conclusion, the death of Christ is the foundation of the Christian's hope. But those believing in a general redemption cannot possibly fully enjoy that blessed hope in Christ. They claim to believe in a redeemer who is not completely successful in redeeming the lost; an atonement that falls short of achieving its purpose; thus believing that the death of Christ must be joined with freewill in order to save. Fortunately, Jesus is a Redeemer who does deliver His people from sin; not just tries to deliver His people with the possibility of losing some of them. His grace is thoroughly efficacious in saving the elect, for whom He died. And one elected by the grace of God is bound to come to Him, for it would be then natural for him to do so.
1The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
2The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
3The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
SO here is the article and Lets just see where we like this and do not
The doctrine of Limited Atonement (or Particular Redemption) is probably the most controversial of the doctrines of grace and most difficult to accept by many believers. Limited Atonement states that Christ's redeeming work was intended to save the elect only, and actually secured salvation for them. His death was the substitutionary endurance of the penalty of sin in the place of certain specified sinners. In addition to putting away the sins of His people, Christ's redemption secured everything necessary for their salvation; including faith which unites them to Him. The gift of faith is infallibly applied by the Spirit to all for whom Christ died, therefore guaranteeing their salvation.
Scriptural Support:Exodus 4:21, 14:4, 8, 17; Deuteronomy 2:30, 9:4-7, 29:4; Joshua 11:19; 1 Samuel 2:25, 3:14; 2 Samuel 17:14; Psalm 105:25; Proverbs 15:8, 26, 28:9; Isaiah 53:11; Jeremiah 24:7; Matthew 1:21, 11:25-27, 13:10-15, 44-46, 15:13, 20:28, 22:14, 24:22; Luke 8:15, 13:23, 19:42; John 5:21, 6:37, 44, 65, 8:42-47, 10:11, 14, 26-28, 11:49-53, 12:37-41, 13:1, 18, 15:16, 17:2, 6, 9, 18:9, 37; Acts 2:39, 13:48, 18:27, 19:9; Romans 9:10-26, 11:5-10; 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 2:14; 2 Corinthians 2:14-16, 4:3; Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 2:1-10; Colossians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-14; 2 Timothy 2:20, 25; Titus 2:14; Hebrews 1:3, 14, 2:9, 16 (cp. Galatians 3:29, 4:28-31), 9:28; 1 Peter 2:8; 2 Peter 2:7; 1 John 4:6; Jude 1, 14; Revelation 13:8, 17:8, 15-18, 21:27.
In the bible list here the EX talked about God harding Pharohah
Look at Matt 11 25 At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. 26 Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. 27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.1
I want to just hit this passage because there is a hidden from thing. Jesus does hide his truth drom people and this is a argument for this topic.
Matt 20 28 27 And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave— 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”2
For all no it said here for many.
Matt 22 14 many called few chosen
Luke 8 14 good soil consept
Luke 13 23 Are there only a few
luke 19 42 things hidden from your eyes
John 8 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”3
Key passage I think in John. First Folk were not able to get the truth because Jesus said the devil is working do they do not. If all can get saved why hide this truth? Some do not hear because he who hears did not hear because the people were not from God.
The first thing to consider is the purpose of Christ's death. Hebrews 10:9 says that Jesus came to do the will of the Father. So it follows that the purpose of His death was to accomplish the Father's will. But what was the Father's will in the death of Christ? It was shown from Scripture in the previous article on the doctrine of unconditional election that it was the purpose of the Father to choose some for salvation, not make salvation a potential for all based on the exercise of free will, which is totally corrupted and depraved by sin. If, then, Christ came to fulfill the purpose of the Father; and it was not the purpose of the Father to elect some to salvation rather than all; then it logically follows that it was not the purpose of Christ to die for all men.
In the covenant of grace, the Father chose a people, Christ promised to die for them, and the Spirit pledged Himself to apply salvation to their hearts. In Isaiah 53:10-12 it says: "But the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand. As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; by His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured out Himself to death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet He Himself bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors."
Christ foresaw the suffering and agony that He would have to endure, and yet, He was content with it, for He realized that by His death, everyone for whom He died would be redeemed from sin. Now if Christ died for all men, and some for whom He died ended up going to hell anyway, then Christ could not have foreseen the suffering and agony of His soul and been satisfied. He would have been disappointed because His efforts would not have been sufficient to save everyone for whom He died. Therefore, the atonement Christ made for the sins of His people was limited in purpose; not in its value, but in its purpose, for it was designed for the elect of God.
If Jesus died for a sinner that did not repent his death is wasted because the sinner is not going to take. In the choice God makes all the blood is used and none is wasted. It is a waste of the blood of Jesus if he died and no one claims it.
The second point to consider is that the purpose of the death of Christ was to save His people from their sins. That is clearly stated for us in Matthew 1:21: "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." This passage did not say that He would save the whole world, nor did it say that He should try to save His people; but that He would save His people from their sins. If that was the prophecy given concerning the birth of Jesus Christ and the purpose for which He came, we must surely know that which was determined by the Father was fulfilled by His faithful Son. Luke 19:10 supports this point: "For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." If that then was His purpose; He accomplished that very thing.
Thirdly, the purpose of Jesus' death was to bring the elect to glory. Romans 8:28-30 says: "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." In John 17 is the prayer of intercession made by the Lord Jesus. In verse 2 He prayed, "Even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life." Note that eternal life was not for all men, but those that were given to Him by the Father. In verse 9 He continues: "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;". It would not be reasonable that Christ would limit His prayers to those given to Him by the Father, and at the same time die for all men, knowing very well that many would not be saved. He prayed for those for whom He died, and He died for those given Him by the Father. His purpose then was not to save the entire human race, for if that had been His purpose He would have accomplished it. Christ is the Almighty and accomplishes everything He intends to do. It was His purpose to save only the elect of God, and His purpose was fulfilled.
Christ died for His sheep, and because of this none can be lost. In John 10:10-11 He said, "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly. I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep." And in verse 28 He continues: "I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." (Notice that He does not offer them eternal life.) Jesus died for the sheep, and He gives eternal life to everyone for whom He died. Christ did not come to attempt to save men; He came to redeem His people. He purged their sins and then sat down on the right hand of His Father. (Hebrews 10:12)
As was stated at the beginning, there are many who find this doctrine hard to accept and so object to it. Nonetheless it is truth that is taught in the Word of God. There are many objections that are raised, and this article will only deal with some of the main ones. One of the first things objectors usually refer to is the use of the word "world" in the Scriptures, and the first passage that is always read is John 3:16: " For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:16 simply states that the design of God's love, that all who believe in Christ should be saved by Him. These believers in their unregenerate state are scattered abroad among the Gentiles as well as among the Jews, and so are fitly described by the word "world." Of course, there are those who reject this explanation. They may look to Acts 11:18 for support: "When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, 'Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." But does this mean that every Gentile has been granted repentance, and that every Gentile will be saved? Of course not. What this passage shows is that repentance has been granted to the Gentiles; it simply means that all those of God's elect among the Gentiles shall be given repentance unto salvation. The Jews are not the only ones to be granted this gift. Jews as well as Gentiles have been given repentance, and so it is the same in John 3:16. It does not have reference to every person in the world, but it has reference to men of all nations.
A passage that illustrates this point well is found in Revelation 5:9: "And they sang a new song, saying, 'Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.'" This helps us to understand, in this context, what is meant by the use of the word "world". It means people of every tribe, tongue, and people; that Christ's death was not restricted to the Jews, but that it was for members of the entire human race scattered throughout the earth.
There are several other examples. In John 7:7 the word "world" is used to distinguish unbelievers from believers. In John 12:9 the word "world" is used of a special people. Romans 11:15 uses it to distinguish Gentiles from Jews, and thus so in passages such as John 3:16 and 1:27, 1 John 2:1 and 2 -- it is used of all the elect of God. Hebrews 2:9 says, "But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone." At this point someone may say, "This is Scriptural proof that Christ died for all men." But the context will explain what it means. "For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings. For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, 'I WILL PROCLAIM YOUR NAME TO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CONGREGATION I WILL SING YOUR PRAISE.'" (Hebrews 2:10-12) When read in context it can be seen that the passage has reference to sons; it has reference to the church; it has reference to the brethren; it has reference to those who are the children of God. So this passage could be understood to say that "Christ has experienced death for every son," for every one that was given to Him by the Father.
What about 2 Peter 2:1? "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves." It must be made clear that these false teachers are unsaved. They are compared to dogs and pigs, not to sheep (2 Peter 2:22). Such people are described in Jude 19 "devoid of the Spirit." If a person does not have the Spirit of God within, he is not a child of God (Romans 8:9). He may appear to be saved and even become a member or an officer in the church, but eventually, in one way or another, he will deny the Lord.
Notwithstanding, this passage is not discussing the atonement of Christ. Peter's first epistle was written to Jews, so most likely was his second one. (1 Peter 1:1; Galatians 2:7) In what sense were these false teachers "bought" by the Lord? To a Jew who was not a Christian "the Lord" would most naturally refer to God the Father, not Jesus. And the Jews were "bought" by God in the Exodus.
One more passage of Scripture to consider is Romans 8:34. It is a clear example of Limited Atonement, or Particular Redemption. It says, "Who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us." How could any for whom Christ died be condemned? The law has been fulfilled, justice has been satisfied, sin has been paid for; and so, the Apostle Paul argues that condemnation is impossible. And since condemnation is excluded by His death, then none for whom He died can be condemned. All for whom Christ died, died in Him; thus the law could not again demand their death.
The renowned 19th century British preacher and evangelist Charles H. Spurgeon had these words to say about limited atonement (from his sermon, "The Mission of the Son of Man"):
"Now, some people love the doctrine of 'universal atonement' because they say it is so beautiful. It is a lovely idea that 'Christ should have died for all men'; it commends itself, they say, to the instincts of humanity; there is something in it full of joy and beauty.
"I admit there is; but beauty may be often associated with falsehood.
"There is much which I might well admire in the theory of 'universal redemption' but let me just tell you what this supposition necessarily involves. If Christ on His cross intended to save every man, then He intended to save those who were damned before He died; because if this doctrine (that He died for all men) is true, He died for some that were in hell before He came into this world, for doubtless there were myriads there that had been cast away.
"Once again, if it were Christ's intention to save all men, how deplorably has He been disappointed! For we have His own evidence that there is a lake that burns with fire and brimstone, and into that pit must be cast some of the very people, who according to that theory, were bought with His blood!
"To think that my Savior died for men in hell, seems a supposition too horrible for me to imagine. That He was the substitute for the sons of men, and that God having first punished the substitute, punished these same men again, seems to me to conflict with any idea of justice.
"That Christ should offer an atonement and satisfaction for the sins of all men, and that afterwards, some of those very men should be punished for the same sins which Christ had already atoned for, seems to me, to be the most marvelous monstrosity that ever could have been imputed to Saturn, to Janus, aye, to the god of the Thugs, or the most diabolical heathen demons!
"God forbid that we should ever think thus of Jehovah, the just and wise."
In conclusion, the death of Christ is the foundation of the Christian's hope. But those believing in a general redemption cannot possibly fully enjoy that blessed hope in Christ. They claim to believe in a redeemer who is not completely successful in redeeming the lost; an atonement that falls short of achieving its purpose; thus believing that the death of Christ must be joined with freewill in order to save. Fortunately, Jesus is a Redeemer who does deliver His people from sin; not just tries to deliver His people with the possibility of losing some of them. His grace is thoroughly efficacious in saving the elect, for whom He died. And one elected by the grace of God is bound to come to Him, for it would be then natural for him to do so.
1The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
2The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
3The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
Labels: calvinism. bible . salvation
Sunday, March 25, 2007
God has to save you
Ron the verse you had on your site is not the right meaning. I follow the bible and I think Jesus is getting at a ton of people that did not use the bible in the right way. The Pharsees went way over the right things on the bible. We need to make our lifes like that if Jesus and do as he said to. At the same rate we are not to make the bible some type of rule book and be into all the Is and T”s. Is that a relationship we are to make with the Lord. Nope, we are to love him and obey him but not go back and make rules we are not finding in the bible. Baptists make rules and try to make them the whole faith and that is not right yet we do need to follow the commands of Jesus and that is to love the Lord God and love your neighbor. What is not loving your God do with things like football and sports as the baptists have nailed me on or woman wearing dress and lady like things or listening to Garth Brooks? Nothing. Knock it off people of the baptist church and teach the Love of Jesus and his forgiveness.
Lets hit more on the fact your so sinful your not able to chose Jesus with out his grace helping you to. I am not going to convert you on this that is the work of Jesus but I am going to lay out why and where in the bible this is so you look and see it yourself
Rom 5 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.1
One sin made all of us sinners and unrighteous before God. It is not ok for anyone to ever go to God until Jesus payment on the cross takes all the sin out of a life and Jesus is Lord of the life and that happens because of Jesus not you of a soul winner.
Rom 7 8 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.2
Every thing done in the flesh is nothing to God and is junk. No good is ever going to be done by you in flesh. If you obey without the work of the Lord Jesus it is in vain and not right. If you eat a meal in flesh it is not right because all is done in the Holy Spirit. Nothing you do is going to earn you a closer walk it is all the love and grace of Jesus ALONE not you. You are not ok by doing in the bible your made ok in Jesus and you do all out of love of Jesus, not to earn a reward at the end either.
Rom 8 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.3
Nothing you do pleases God in your flesh. It is not possible for a sinner to please Jesus ever. If your not saved God does not want your work because it is like rags and he is not blessing you if your not his. Jesus cannot mold you until your saved and your not going to come into this until your Gods elect and it is not possible without the Lords work in you to even come. Why could you even want to if your a sin fleshly man.
1 sor 2 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 4
If your not in Jesus your not ready for anything about Jesus. God has to prepare your heart to come to Jesus. If someone were to ask me if they were going to hell because they did not love Jesus I am going to say yes you are. But the non saved people will say I am not open and I am not because I know Jesus and he said he is the only one and my mind is his and the non saved mind cannot even kn ow that there is one way because the mind is not prosessed by Jesus and if that is the case the mind is blind to the truth and cannot know. Some cases I know the person is rejected Jesus to the point Jesus has said fine and sealed the person for hell. The person is doomed unless Jesus worked on them and I think if you hear the Gospel and reject it you can be in that boat. I know of many folks that think it is all fake and for them Hell is where they go unless Jesus changes the heart. It is not ok with Jesus to no agree with him and you will go to hell unless he changes you. And I dare say I know people where the case is your done and going to hell.
1 cor 12 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.5
NO ONE CAN CALL JESUS LORD UNLESS THE SPIRIT IS IN HIM WORKING. If your not saved you need to do it today because if you do not God may kill you or make you live for 50 more years and then send you to hell. I have people say it is not right for me to say one is going to hell. I disagree because if you have no Jesus you are going to die and go to hell. I am not going to lie to you and say you could make it in the Catholic heaven without Jesus in 10 millon years. Your not going to go to heaven if you die and Jesus is not your Lord and Savior and both need to be true or no heaven. One lie is enough to send you away to hell. One time not loving Jesus with all you are, and if you think it is not real off to hell you go with no hope.
2 cor 3 4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,6
God makes us right before him we do not. We have nothing in the flesh to give to Jesus it all comes from Jesus and nothing is good enough for heaven we do. We are not going to heaven because we are good because we need perfection and we do not have it. Jesus gives it to us.
2 cor 4 . 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.7
If your not saved this is not going to ever make a bean hill of sense to you, your not going to get Jesus because the devil has covered your eyes and you are impossible to reach without the Lord removing the blinders off and giving you a chance to kn ow the truth. If the Lord gives you understanding take it and get saved for if you reject it your in a place of no good
1The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
2The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
3The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
4The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
5The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
6The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
7The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
Lets hit more on the fact your so sinful your not able to chose Jesus with out his grace helping you to. I am not going to convert you on this that is the work of Jesus but I am going to lay out why and where in the bible this is so you look and see it yourself
Rom 5 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.1
One sin made all of us sinners and unrighteous before God. It is not ok for anyone to ever go to God until Jesus payment on the cross takes all the sin out of a life and Jesus is Lord of the life and that happens because of Jesus not you of a soul winner.
Rom 7 8 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.2
Every thing done in the flesh is nothing to God and is junk. No good is ever going to be done by you in flesh. If you obey without the work of the Lord Jesus it is in vain and not right. If you eat a meal in flesh it is not right because all is done in the Holy Spirit. Nothing you do is going to earn you a closer walk it is all the love and grace of Jesus ALONE not you. You are not ok by doing in the bible your made ok in Jesus and you do all out of love of Jesus, not to earn a reward at the end either.
Rom 8 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.3
Nothing you do pleases God in your flesh. It is not possible for a sinner to please Jesus ever. If your not saved God does not want your work because it is like rags and he is not blessing you if your not his. Jesus cannot mold you until your saved and your not going to come into this until your Gods elect and it is not possible without the Lords work in you to even come. Why could you even want to if your a sin fleshly man.
1 sor 2 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 4
If your not in Jesus your not ready for anything about Jesus. God has to prepare your heart to come to Jesus. If someone were to ask me if they were going to hell because they did not love Jesus I am going to say yes you are. But the non saved people will say I am not open and I am not because I know Jesus and he said he is the only one and my mind is his and the non saved mind cannot even kn ow that there is one way because the mind is not prosessed by Jesus and if that is the case the mind is blind to the truth and cannot know. Some cases I know the person is rejected Jesus to the point Jesus has said fine and sealed the person for hell. The person is doomed unless Jesus worked on them and I think if you hear the Gospel and reject it you can be in that boat. I know of many folks that think it is all fake and for them Hell is where they go unless Jesus changes the heart. It is not ok with Jesus to no agree with him and you will go to hell unless he changes you. And I dare say I know people where the case is your done and going to hell.
1 cor 12 3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.5
NO ONE CAN CALL JESUS LORD UNLESS THE SPIRIT IS IN HIM WORKING. If your not saved you need to do it today because if you do not God may kill you or make you live for 50 more years and then send you to hell. I have people say it is not right for me to say one is going to hell. I disagree because if you have no Jesus you are going to die and go to hell. I am not going to lie to you and say you could make it in the Catholic heaven without Jesus in 10 millon years. Your not going to go to heaven if you die and Jesus is not your Lord and Savior and both need to be true or no heaven. One lie is enough to send you away to hell. One time not loving Jesus with all you are, and if you think it is not real off to hell you go with no hope.
2 cor 3 4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,6
God makes us right before him we do not. We have nothing in the flesh to give to Jesus it all comes from Jesus and nothing is good enough for heaven we do. We are not going to heaven because we are good because we need perfection and we do not have it. Jesus gives it to us.
2 cor 4 . 3 But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.7
If your not saved this is not going to ever make a bean hill of sense to you, your not going to get Jesus because the devil has covered your eyes and you are impossible to reach without the Lord removing the blinders off and giving you a chance to kn ow the truth. If the Lord gives you understanding take it and get saved for if you reject it your in a place of no good
1The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
2The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
3The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
4The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
5The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
6The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
7The New King James Version, (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers) 1998, c1982.
Labels: calvinism. bible . salvation
